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This presentation was given on Sabbath, January 26, at the Mind & Spirit Conference, hosted by the Loma Linda University Church in cooperation with the LLU School of Religion. The theme of the conference was “The Adventist Identity and the Challenge of Diversity: Questions on Doctrine 50 Years Later.” The conference held on January 25-26 featured presentations by Fritz Guy, Larry Kirkpatrick, George Knight, Julius Nam, Chris Oberg, Jon Paulien, and Kenneth Samples. Larry Christoffel, David Larson, and Richard Rice also participated as panelists. (Click on each name for a copy of his/her paper either from this conference or from the Questions on Doctrine 50th Anniversary Conference.)
“Are Seventh-day Adventists Christians?” This is the question that most conservative Christians in the first half of the twentieth century could not honestly say yes to. In fact, for many the answer was an adamant no. Especially those who called themselves fundamentalists or evangelicals came out attacking the Adventist church for being a non-Christian, even anti-Christian, heretical cult. They called Adventists a group of “deluded people” who believe in doctrines that are “of Satan” and certainly “not . . . of Christ.” Their judgment of Adventism into the 1950s was based on the misperception that Adventists considered Ellen White’s writings as an addition to the Bible, that they kept the Sabbath and other laws of the Bible as a way of achieving salvation, that they did not believe in the full divinity and eternal pre-existence of Christ, and that they were an exclusive end-time sect that condemned the rest of the world-just to name a few.
Walter Martin, a young countercult specialist in the mid-1950s, was one such individual. In the preface to his book, The Rise of Cults, published by Zondervan in 1955, he included Adventism in the Big Five of the most dangerous and deceptive cults of his time-along with Christian Science, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormonism and Unity. Interestingly, though, he also stated that Seventh-day Adventism was so close to evangelical Christianity (maybe dangerous close) that it merited full and thorough investigation, which he promised to do.
At that time, Martin was working as a contributing writer for Eternity magazine, one of the most widely read periodical for conservative Protestants in the 1950s. He approached his publisher, Donald Grey Barnhouse, about doing research on Adventism, and Barnhouse directed him to T. E. Unruh, president of the Adventist church’s East Pennsylvania Conference. Unruh, six years earlier, had heard Barnhouse’s radio broadcast on grace and had written a letter to Barnhouse thanking him for the wonderful message. This was surprising for Barnhouse who, based on his experience with Adventists growing up in Mountain View, California, did not think that Adventists believed in salvation by grace. The correspondence between Barnhouse and Unruh did not progress much further. But when Martin approached him, Barnhouse remembered that exchange, and that led Martin to Unruh, who then arranged for a meeting at the Adventist world headquarters in Washington, D.C., in March 1955.Present at that first meeting were Martin and his friend, George Cannon, a New Testament scholar from New York, and three representatives designated by the General Conference to answer Martin’s questions and facilitate his research. The three were: Unruh and Leroy Edwin Froom and Walter Read who had positions in the General Conferences. The leader among the Adventist representatives was Froom.
This meeting was in a sense a dream-come-true for Froom. For the previous two decades, Froom had been working hard to take Adventism off the lists of non-Christian cults that conservative Protestant writers were churning out regularly. He wrote letters, manuscripts, and rebuttals to each writer who attacked Adventism. At the same time, he and others who shared the same burden saw great possibilities for friendship in fundamentalist and evangelical Christianity. In fact, the high view of Scripture and literal reading and application of Scripture that fundamentalist and evangelicals emphasized seemed to go very well with Adventism. But all who were attacking Adventists were coming from that conservative, fundamentalist, evangelical wing of Protestantism. It was Froom’s mission to build bridges with that wing. So this was a grand opportunity for Froom. These strangers had come right through our gates!
After the initial pleasantries, Martin got right down to business, firing off the 40-some questions that he brought. Do you believe in the Trinity? Do you take Ellen White’s writings to be an addition to Scripture? What place does Christ and his grace have in your theology? Doesn’t your emphasis on commandment-keeping, especially Sabbath-keeping, take away from the biblical teaching on salvation by grace? Doesn’t your investigative judgment teaching effectively negate Christ’s atonement on the cross?
To their credit, the three Adventist leaders did not jump to defend each criticism head-on. They paused and asked they could share with the two guests what they considered to be the heart of Adventism and what they saw as great areas of commonality between Adventism and evangelical Christianity. And then, they proceeded to provide some concrete answers. Do you believe in the Trinity? Yes. Many of our pioneers did not, but with the help of Ellen White, we fully embrace it. Do you take Ellen White’s writings to be an addition to Scripture? No, we do not. We have always considered them to be subservient to the authority of Scripture. What place does Christ and his grace have in your theology? Christ is the heart of Adventist theology and we are saved by God’s grace alone. Doesn’t your emphasis on commandment-keeping, especially Sabbath-keeping, take away from the biblical teaching on salvation by grace? No, it does not. We keep the Sabbath because we are saved, not in order to be saved. Doesn’t your investigative judgment teaching effectively negate Christ’s atonement on the cross? Christ’s atonement on the cross was full and complete, and Christ is now making available the benefits of his atonement to all who believe. The cross and Christ’s heavenly ministry are complementary and part of God’s grand plan of redemption, not in opposition to one another.
When it became clear that the Adventist leaders were repudiating many of the assumptions that Martin himself and others had made of Adventism, Martin was compelled to reconsider his position. In fact, the next morning, Martin made a dramatic announcement that he no longer viewed Adventism as a cult and extended his hand as a gesture of acceptance as fellow Christians.
From that meeting ensued, over following 18 months, a dozen meetings of exploration between the two parties. These Adventist-evangelical conferences, which later included Barnhouse himself and Roy Allan Anderson from the Adventist side, culminated in Barnhouse writing in Eternity an article “Are Seventh-day Adventists Christians?” His answer was a resounding yes. Though he disagreed with many Adventist teachings, he believed that Christians can disagree on many important beliefs but still relate with one another as fellow believers in Christ, if they can agree on what he and Martin called the “cardinal doctrines” of historic Christianity such as the Trinity, supreme authority of Scripture, salvation through Christ, and the literal return of Christ. That was September 1956. A year later, Adventists published Seventh-day Adventists Answer Questions on Doctrine, a book that provided answers to the 40+ questions that Martin raised.
This book was meant to establish once for all the Christian orthodoxy of Adventism, using the language and categories of thought that conservative Christians were comfortable with. However, it would take two more decades for most Christians in the United States to come accept Adventism as a Christian group. Meantime, the book ignited a great controversy within the Adventist church, something very few foresaw. But the contours and lessons from that controversy for the present and the future will be discussed this afternoon, so not now.
What are the lessons we can learn from this episode in Adventist history? Let me share with five positive lessons (leaving the “negative” or cautionary lessons for the panel time).
1. We have much to learn from Martin and Barnhouse who chose to go directly to the source to find out from representative Adventists whether Adventism was indeed a cult.
2. We have much to learn also from their courage to speak up for their new conviction that Adventism is not a cult. They paid a high price professionally and personally for their courage. Adventists have much to thank them for this.
3. We can learn from the Adventist leaders who, instead of engaging immediately in a tit-for-tat quarrel, found it important to emphasize the areas of commonality. They did not seek merely to defend, but also to befriend. Martin said many times later that that basis of understanding and the friendship forged around their common faith was crucial. The Adventist leaders, though they knew that Martin came with the agenda to write a theological expose about Adventism, extended the Sabbath spirit to the strangers that came into our gates and treated them respectfully and congenially.
4. We can learn from all of them who showed Christian maturity by agreeing to disagree, by recognizing that there is more than one way to being Christian, and in spite of their sharp doctrinal differences they can be brothers in Christ. If such friendship is possible across denominations, it certainly ought to be possible within our own community. All too often we treat of our own brothers and sisters in our own household as if they are strangers. Actually, we can treat strangers better than our own family sometimes.
5. Finally, we learn from the Adventist-evangelical interactions of the 1950s that conversation is possible and necessary, though it may be risky. Remember that this episode began when T. E. Unruh wrote a simple letter of appreciation to a stranger in a different church. When we are committed to having conversations, following the footsteps of Christ who engaged all in conversations, that will lead to conversions of heart-us to them, and them to us. And we will be strangers no longer, but fellow members of God’s household.
Julius said:
“Their judgment of Adventism into the 1950s was based on the misperception that
(1) Adventists considered Ellen White’s writings as an addition to the Bible,
(2) that they kept the Sabbath and other laws of the Bible as a way of achieving salvation,
(3) that they did not believe in the full divinity and eternal pre-existence of Christ, and
(4) that they were an exclusive end-time sect that condemned the rest of the world-just to name a few.”
—-
Well, I think #1 is still pretty accurate. I know there’s a lot of splitting of hairs over greater and lesser lights and the Bible being the highest source of authority, but increasingly many conservative Adventists are refuting the idea of there being any gradation in inspiration, whether through Biblical times prophet or end-time prophet-tess.
#2 is simularly difficult to parse; I’m not sure where the dividing line is between one’s motivation of abstaining from certain activities on Sabbath. Do we do anything to be, or because we are, saved?
#3 seems to have been dispensed with as a serious point of conflict in Adventism.
#4 is still pretty true if one follows the content of Amazing Facts seminars
Comment by Glenn 01.29.08 @ 12:34 pmThank you Julius for having these papers available - I have looked forward to reading them with great anticipation! Will the presentations be available in audio and/or video format at some stage also?
Comment by Ben 01.29.08 @ 1:45 pmThank you Dr. Nam for making these QOD conference presentations available for the common layman like myself.I can see why my daughter enjoyed her classes with you at Loma Linda. God Bless you!
Comment by Hugo Meier 01.30.08 @ 3:09 amI was present at the QOD conference and what I appreciated most was the spirit of the conference. I wondered how civil people would be considering we had the Standish brothers, Lary Kirkpatrick, Herb Douglas, along with Julius Nam, George Knight, Richard Rice, Woody Whiddon, and others. But all the presentations were given in a positive way and the panels made up of both side were very cordial. That gives me hope for Adventism
Comment by J. David Newman 01.31.08 @ 5:11 amPerhaps there should be a conversation, with a representative group of Andrews scholars posing 40+ questions to the NAE leading to the publication of “Evangelicals Answer SDA Questions on Doctrine.”
Comment by David Vickman 01.31.08 @ 3:04 pmJulius,
I started watching this on lluc.org and caught your opening words. Apparently this was a popular event as it only took 5 minutes for the lag to make it all unwatchable. However what I saw I liked- you did good!
Thanks for posting this online!
Comment by Johnny A. Ramirez 01.31.08 @ 7:26 pm-johnny
Julius,
Thanks for making these papers available to me, an Aussie in the backwoods of Korea. It will take me time to digest all that is said in these papers. However, Jon Paulien’s paper has already captured my interest. His list of 3 unifying influences in the Adventist Church started me thinking. His list is certainly a useful one. I’m certainly glad for the influence of all 3 on his list and I do recognize their impact. 1. Andrews University. 2. The SS Bible Study Guides. 3. The Church system of governance with it hierarchy of financial and government authority.
May I be so bold as to modify it a little.
According to Ephesians 4unity of faith and the uplifting and maturing of the church is achieved through the gifts of the Spirit. Our list therefore, would do well to reflect the ‘charasmatic’ dimensions of the church. Notice also that this passage reflects a rather positive perspective as to the achievement of unity and maturity through these various gifts. Jesus Himself called the Spirit by the title, ‘the Spirit of Truth.’ Though there will always be further progress to be made in unity and maturity, the Spirit is given to draw us together. We must start our theogical dialogue from this premise. The Spirit is powerful enough to break through the stereotypes we create for ourselves and others and to bind us together while breaking down our egos and healing our fractured psychologies. The Spirit will engender a humility where the most sophisticated mind is willing to listen and engage with the most untrained mind.
It seems to me that we must intensify our strategic and intentional efforts toward world-wide unity. This is a true function of the hierarchy.
Perhaps in the future we will spend less resources on a 5 yearly exercise in self congratulation and commercialism. Rather, we might transact this important function by housing the delegates on one of our larger institutional campuses (not in 5 or 7 star luxury). We certainly have the resources to beam the proceedings around the world. Then we could use all available resources for multiple exercises in open-ended and spirit led grass root consultations with the world wide body. The differing but not separate and distinct influence of the gifts of knowledge and wisdom on the one hand and the gift of pastors, teachers and evangelists on the other are all to have their proper place together with the gift of administration.
My list of unifying influences on the church would certainly include the following.
1) The writings of Ellen White.
2) The Hope Channel.
I need a church that is as safe for the Professor of Political Science from a leading Chinese University to belong to,(this lady has just committed her life to Christ and who accompanies me to church) as for the most sophisticated Adventist religious scholar.
Comment by Peter S Marks 02.01.08 @ 4:04 amWhat happened to Israel when Hezekiah let the Babylonian straingers within his gates?
The Adventist Church Leadership began their slide into apostasy when they rejected the Latter Rain in 1888. The apostasy had progressed so far that Froom thought it his mission to get the Babylonian churches to accept us as one of them, instead of calling them out of Babylon!
Let’s start with the Trinity. How many inspired statements do you have on the Trinity? Not one! Not in the Bible or the Spirit of Prophecy!
“In the commission to His disciples, Christ not only outlined their work, but gave them their message. Teach the people, He said, “to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” The disciples were to teach what Christ had taught. That which He had spoken, not only in person, but through all the prophets and teachers of the Old Testament, is here included. Human teaching is shut out. There is no place for tradition, for man’s theories and conclusions, or for church legislation. No laws ordained by ecclesiastical authority are included in the commission. None of these are Christ’s servants to teach. “The law and the prophets,” with the record of His own words and deeds, are the treasure committed to the disciples to be given to the world. Christ’s name is their watchword, their badge of distinction, their bond of union, the authority for their course of action, and the source of their success. Nothing that does not bear His superscription is to be recognized in His kingdom.” {DA 826.1}
It is interesting to me that the Adventist leaders thought that the Pioneers were wrong and the Babylonian churches were right!
Next “Do you take Ellen White’s writings to be an addition to Scripture?” What is wrong with our leaders? Was Ellen White a Prophet? Are her writings inspired? Was Isaiah and addition to scripture? Were Paul’s letters an addition to scripture? Yes! Inspiration did not end with the Bible! Yes, Ellen White is an addition to scripture! Why not tell the truth?
What about the Sabbath and Salvation by Grace? What is Salvation? The Babylonians think that salvation is a fire escape that they can have while they are still sinning! Can you loose your salvation over the Sabbath? Can you loose your salvation over eating a fruit? Ask Adam and Eve! What is it that you need to be saved from anyway? Why not ask the Babylonians if you can continue commiting adultery and be saved? What if you are a hit man! Your job is killing people. Can you keep your job and still be saved? When they answer no, you can say, “I thought you were saved by grace!” Now you can call THEM legalists! Salvation is making the choice to stop sinning! And grace is the power God gives you to make that choice!
The Investigative Judgement is represented in scripture by the man who came without a wedding garment. If you are not faithful till the end, you certainly will be thrown out!
“Salvation means to us complete surrender of soul, body, and spirit. Because of the unruly elements of our nature our passions often gain the mastery. The only hope for the sinner is to cease from sin. Thus his will will be in harmony with the will of Christ. His soul will be brought into fellowship with God.” — Manuscript 73, May 11, 1899, “Abide in Me.” This Day With God p. 140.
For those who don’t believe that it is possible to stop sinning check this out! Luke 1:5-6 NKJV
“5There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.”
Instead of remodeling our church to be like the Babylonians, We need to uphold the teaching of the Pioneers and call the Babylonians out!
Comment by Dennis Brookens 06.08.08 @ 3:11 pmDennis, I thought I ran on high-octane gas! I appreciated what you had to say. How do we keep Babylon out without being elitist and stand-offish? Spiritual pride and closed-mindedness can be a very real problem in a ‘one true church’, whether its Mormon, Catholic, or Adventist. There is a huge difference between inspired writings and authoritative writings. I have recently decided that the red-letter teachings of Jesus are authoritatively constitutional, both historically and in modernity. I consider the non-red letter scriptures to be inspired, but not authoritative for Christians. This would include the writings of Ellen White. I know this is heresy, but it seems to make sense. The U.S. Constitution is a very brief, yet highly authoritative document. The Federalist Papers are contextual and clarifying, but not authoritative. Babylon is confusion. Christianity has too many bosses. Too many layers of authority and interpretation. Too many gurus, profits(I mean prophets), and know-it-alls. The result is strife, confusion, and ineffectiveness. I have decided to follow Jesus. I’m not a poster-child for doing this…but the concept seems to be sound.
Comment by David Vickman 06.09.08 @ 2:52 pmThe following is a totally random brain-storm/question/comment related to Babylon which I probably shouldn’t ask: What would be possible Protestant and Adventist objections to the Latin Mass? It seems as though the Latin Mass might be theologically neutral and a sort of spiritual Switzerland because it is in Latin. Reverence and awe without sermonizing. Pope Benedict seems to favor the Latin Mass. I have participated directly in many Catholic masses(music), and did not have a big problem with them. My primary objection to Catholicism over the centuries is corruption, abuses, and atrocities. Luther had a problem with these things, and I suspect that many rank and file parishioners do as well. I once heard a priest equate Saturday and Sabbath repeatedly during a mass. Interesting! My theological objection with all of Christianity, including Catholicism is in not making the teachings of Jesus exclusively authoritative. I also suspect that the U.S. Constitution would be an obstacle to a global Roman Catholic theocracy, which many fear. If the words of Christ and the Constitution were in first and second place in the Roman Catholic Church, I might not have a problem with participation in the Latin Mass. But relax…this will never, ever happen. There! Now I’ve made everyone mad!
Comment by David Vickman 06.10.08 @ 2:23 pmI thank God for great men with vision like Leroy Froom. And I also thank God for men like M.L. Andreasen, one of my favorite Adventist authors. For me, QOD represents the Seventh Day Adventists true doctrines presented in a light that shows that we are a Bible believing church, and although we have some unique teachings, we are nonetheless members of Christian orthodoxy. We are true followers of the Christ. And rather than constantly bicker and argue about things that really aren’t that important, we have enough in common between “traditionalists” and “progressives” to be united in our vision to carry the special message of Seventh Day Adventism to the ends of the world, and possibly even see in our own lifetimes the glorious hope of all Christianity…… our Lord’s imminent return. I pray that we can all be one, as Jesus prayed to the Father, as they are one.
Comment by Jeffrey Jourdonais 06.12.08 @ 1:14 pmOur Church was raised up by God for a spacific mission. John the Baptist was raised up to prepare a people for the 1st advent of Christ. Our church was raised up by God to prepare a people for the 2nd advent of Christ! Our Pioneers came out of Babylon and united on a solid Biblical Platform to form this church! Please read the following quotations and explain to me what the “Challenge of Diversity” has to do with our God given mission! For those who may have forgotten, these quotes describe Babylon and our mission!
“The fallen denominational churches are Babylon. Babylon has been fostering poisonous doctrines, the wine of error. This wine of error is made up of false doctrines, such as the natural immortality of the soul, the eternal torment of the wicked, the denial of the pre-existence of Christ prior to His birth in Bethlehem, and advocating and exalting the first day of the week above God’s holy and sanctified day. These and kindred errors are presented to the world by the various churches, and thus the Scriptures are fulfilled that say, ‘For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.’ It is a wrath which is created by false doctrines, and when kings and presidents drink this wine of the wrath of her fornication, they are stirred with anger against those who will not come into harmony with the false and satanic heresies which exalt the false sabbath, and lead men to trample underfoot God’s memorial.” Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 61-62.
“Loud Cry of the Third Angel
And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. Rev. 18:1.
I saw another mighty angel commissioned to descend to the earth, to unite his voice with the third angel, and give power and force to his message.
A work of worldwide extent and unwonted power is here foretold.
Great power and glory were imparted to the angel, and as he descended, the earth was lightened with his glory. The light which attended this angel penetrated everywhere, as he cried mightily, with a strong voice, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.” Rev. 18:2. The message of the fall of Babylon, as given by the second angel, is repeated, with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the churches since 1844. The work of this angel comes in at the right time to join in the last great work of the third angel’s message as it swells to a loud cry. And the people of God are thus prepared to stand in the hour of temptation, which they are soon to meet. I saw a great light resting upon them, and they united to fearlessly proclaim the third angel’s message.
Angels were sent to aid the mighty angel from heaven, and I heard voices which seemed to sound everywhere, “Come out of her, my people.” . . . The glory of God rested upon the patient, waiting saints, and they fearlessly gave the last solemn warning, proclaiming the fall of Babylon and calling upon God’s people to come out of her that they might escape her fearful doom.” The Faith I Live By p. 335
Questions on Doctrine was an attempt by our leaders to get Babylon to accept us as one of them! Question — Did Questions on Doctrine fulfill our mission, — or is it possibly the Omega of apostasy that Ellen White warned us about? Can it be said of Leroy Froom, that he “fearlessly gave the last solemn warning”?
Did you know that Ellen White eventually gave up on trying to get the MINISTERS to accept the light?
“When I have been made to pass over the history of the Jewish nation and have seen where they stumbled because they did not walk in the light, I have been led to realize where we as a people would be led if we refuse the light God would give us. Eyes have ye but ye see not; ears, but ye hear not. Now, brethren, light has come to us and we want to be where we can grasp it, and God will lead us out one by one to Him. I see your danger and I want to warn you. {1888 152.5}
Now, this is the last ministers’ meeting we will have unless you wish to meet together yourselves. If the ministers will not receive the light, I want to give the people a chance; perhaps they may receive it. God did not raise me up to come across the plains to speak to you and you sit here to question His message and question whether Sister White is the same as she used to be in years gone by. I have in many things gone way back and given you that which was given me in years past, because then you acknowledged that Sister White was right. But somehow it has changed now, and Sister White is different. Just like the Jewish nation.” The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials P. 152.6
Remember —- those who do not accept the Spirit of Prophecy (believe, practice, and teach it) cannot possibly be the Remnant of Bible Prophecy! Christ’s sheep hear his voice and follow him. Beware — there are wolves in sheep’s clothing among us!
Comment by Dennis Brookens 06.17.08 @ 9:44 pmIn these days, it is hard to find an Adventist minister who knows how to give the trumpet a certain sound. For those who are interested, I would like to recomend the sermons of Elder Dave Westbrook!
Comment by Dennis Brookens 06.18.08 @ 5:40 amhttp://www.backtoenoch.org/audio_topic07.htm
Dennis: Have you tried making your case directly from the words of Jesus? In principle and concept, Ellen White is right in so many ways. But her words are not authoritative additions to the words of Christ. In fact, I don’t even consider the writings of Paul to be an authoritative addition to the words of Christ. Inspired? Yes! Authoritative? No! How about studying the Conflict of the Ages series, and then quoting directly from the teachings of Jesus to make your point? Why do Christians seem to be Christophobic?
Comment by David Vickman 06.19.08 @ 3:28 pm“God is either teaching His church, reproving their wrongs and strengthening their faith, or He is not. This work is of God, or it is not. God does nothing in partnership with Satan. My work for the past thirty years bears the stamp of God or the stamp of the enemy. There is no halfway work in the matter. The Testimonies are of the Spirit of God, or of the devil.” Testimonies for the Church Volume Four p. 229
” Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
David:
Comment by Dennis Brookens 06.19.08 @ 6:11 pmI have been writing to the REMNANT! I am not writing to those who hapen to have the Testimonies on the book shelf at home. If the Testimonies have no authority in your life, then what I write is not for you!
Dennis: As a Christian…I have decided to follow Jesus. I value the words of Jesus above all others. If quoting Jesus is a problem…and Ellen White is supremely authoritative…then how about quoting from the Desire of Ages?
Comment by David Vickman 06.19.08 @ 10:38 pmDavid:
For your information, — Jesus created everything in this world, and in the heavens, and in the heaven of heavens. He spoke directly to Adam and Eve. After sin entered, he has chosen to speak by his prophets.
Hos 12:9-10 NKJV
9″But I am the LORD your God,
Ever since the land of Egypt;
I will again make you dwell in tents,
As in the days of the appointed feast.
10I have also spoken by the prophets,
And have multiplied visions;
I have given symbols through the witness of the prophets.”
Jesus speaks to you by his prophets! If you disregard them, what excuse will you offer in the judgement?
2 Tim 3:16-4:1 NKJV
“16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
If you don’t believe that Jesus speaks to you by his prophets, including the latest one, then you can’t be complete and and I feel sorry for you!
If you only believe the Red letter words, I have news for you! Jesus didn’t write them. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote them! So much for Red Letters!
Comment by Dennis Brookens 06.20.08 @ 5:04 pmDennis: Regarding your comment “If you only believe the Red letter words, I have news for you! Jesus didn’t write them. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote them! So much for Red Letters!”…are you suggesting that when the scriptures, which are given by the inspiration of God, record the words of Jesus…that you don’t believe that Jesus actually said these words? If so, there is a group of very liberal scholars, which make up the notorious ‘Jesus Seminar’ who might agree with you regarding some of the words. They have a ‘technicolor’ version of the Gospels, which grade the various words attributed to Christ according to degrees of certainty, regarding whether He said these words, or not. I believe that Jesus said the red-letter words. They may have even been written down before He said them. I doubt the Gospel writers recorded the Sermon on the Mount word for word while it was being delivered. The Teachings of Jesus are consistent, true, and deliver a death-blow to the Prince of Darkness…the God of this World…Satan…the Devil. But Satan knows that if he can keep our attention directed away from these words…he can continue his domination of planet earth indefinately. He’s doing a pretty good job, isn’t he? Do you think he might have something to do with the so called ‘New World Order’? With the Christianity of the last 2,000 years…who needs the Anti-Christ? “Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then shall the Lord come to claim them as His own.” Christ’s Object Lessons, pg. 69. Again…I have decided to follow Jesus. Though none go with me…still I will follow.
Comment by David Vickman 06.20.08 @ 6:51 pmLeave a comment
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