Comments on: The Vision of the Rock http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/ Re-imagining the Adventist Vision ~ Beyond Conservative and Liberal ~ Lifting Up the Family of Adventism Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:27:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Julius http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2092 Julius Thu, 24 Jan 2008 03:18:13 +0000 http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2092 Amen to each of the five, Quizzard. Vintage Quizzardly Prophetic. One you didn't mention but painfully real: Materialism and the drive for socioeconomic upward mobility. It's all around us and in us - in me, right here in Loma Linda. Amen to each of the five, Quizzard. Vintage Quizzardly Prophetic.

One you didn’t mention but painfully real: Materialism and the drive for socioeconomic upward mobility. It’s all around us and in us - in me, right here in Loma Linda.

]]> By: Quizzard http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2090 Quizzard Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:36:32 +0000 http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2090 Good commencement address, Julius. I wish I had been there (I understand graduates still throw tortillas during the ceremony - hope you didn't get hit!). For me, it is not so much that the church's official teachings and practices that need to be challenged (well, sometimes), but ALSO the church's actually (and unofficial teachings and practices: 1. The racism in the church is not anywhere an official teaching. But we sure do act like it. 2. The sexism in the church is not anywhere an official teaching. But we sure do act like it. 3. The elitism in the church is not anywhere an official teaching. But we sure do act like it (especially you ed-ju-ma-cated folks). 4. The legalism, judgmentalism, and perfectionism practices in the church . . . well, perhaps we'd have to mull that over. 5. Tolerance as the only prime virtue and moral rule - not a teaching of the church, although most of our young people mindlessly subscribe to it. I ask folk, "Respect all cultures? Do you tolerate female genital mutiliation? Donkey-raping? Cannibalism? Head-hunting? Beating women for not wearing a burqa? Sexual slavery of children? No? Then you don't respect all cultures, do you?" Good commencement address, Julius. I wish I had been there (I understand graduates still throw tortillas during the ceremony - hope you didn’t get hit!).

For me, it is not so much that the church’s official teachings and practices that need to be challenged (well, sometimes), but ALSO the church’s actually (and unofficial teachings and practices:

1. The racism in the church is not anywhere an official teaching. But we sure do act like it.

2. The sexism in the church is not anywhere an official teaching. But we sure do act like it.

3. The elitism in the church is not anywhere an official teaching. But we sure do act like it (especially you ed-ju-ma-cated folks).

4. The legalism, judgmentalism, and perfectionism practices in the church . . . well, perhaps we’d have to mull that over.

5. Tolerance as the only prime virtue and moral rule - not a teaching of the church, although most of our young people mindlessly subscribe to it. I ask folk, “Respect all cultures? Do you tolerate female genital mutiliation? Donkey-raping? Cannibalism? Head-hunting? Beating women for not wearing a burqa? Sexual slavery of children? No? Then you don’t respect all cultures, do you?”

]]> By: Julius http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2076 Julius Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:39:56 +0000 http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2076 Elaine, Your point is well-taken. But I think there are far more WITHIN the church who do question, do take exception, do seek to change/correct, and do challenge the church and its official teachings and practices. I respect those who have chosen to leave and sympathize deeply with those who were forced to leave. In fact, I think some minister to us through their departure. Yet that doesn't negate or diminish the courage and passion of those who have embraced Adventism with all its problems (perceived or real) and are growing with it toward a healthy future. For them, it's a ministry and a calling. Surely, it's no laughing matter. Elaine,

Your point is well-taken. But I think there are far more WITHIN the church who do question, do take exception, do seek to change/correct, and do challenge the church and its official teachings and practices. I respect those who have chosen to leave and sympathize deeply with those who were forced to leave. In fact, I think some minister to us through their departure. Yet that doesn’t negate or diminish the courage and passion of those who have embraced Adventism with all its problems (perceived or real) and are growing with it toward a healthy future. For them, it’s a ministry and a calling. Surely, it’s no laughing matter.

]]> By: Elaine Nelson http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2071 Elaine Nelson Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:00:14 +0000 http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2071 Julius, you said: "… if they see any part of Adventism they consider to be irrelevant and antiquated, they ought to work toward changing them, rather than leaving Adventism." And you know how unsuccessful that has been for many. Daring to even question the fundamentals will get you defrocked or worse. As an Adventist historian, you know that road is littered with the bodies of many great and wonderful people. Surely, you jest. Julius, you said: “… if they see any part of Adventism they consider to be irrelevant and antiquated, they ought to work toward changing them, rather than leaving Adventism.”

And you know how unsuccessful that has been for many. Daring to even question the fundamentals will get you defrocked or worse. As an Adventist historian, you know that road is littered with the bodies of many great and wonderful people. Surely, you jest.

]]> By: Julius http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2043 Julius Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:00:16 +0000 http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2043 What I meant to say there is that ... if they see any part of Adventism they consider to be irrelevant and antiquated, they ought to work toward changing them, rather than leaving Adventism. I didn't have particular belief or practice in mind. If pressed, I would probably say Adventism's tendency toward "my" health, "my" salvation, "our" community--personal or collective self-centeredness--might be one. As I've expressed on my blog already in the past, I think the dominant remnant concept is antiquated--so is the whole notion of reading Revelation as a timeline. I'll just leave it at that for now. What I meant to say there is that … if they see any part of Adventism they consider to be irrelevant and antiquated, they ought to work toward changing them, rather than leaving Adventism. I didn’t have particular belief or practice in mind. If pressed, I would probably say Adventism’s tendency toward “my” health, “my” salvation, “our” community–personal or collective self-centeredness–might be one. As I’ve expressed on my blog already in the past, I think the dominant remnant concept is antiquated–so is the whole notion of reading Revelation as a timeline. I’ll just leave it at that for now.

]]> By: Hank http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2039 Hank Wed, 16 Jan 2008 05:17:15 +0000 http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2039 Julius What did you mean by - "the lifeless, rigid, calcified remains of the past" in Adventism? Give me some examples, please. Julius

What did you mean by - “the lifeless, rigid, calcified remains of the past” in Adventism? Give me some examples, please.

]]> By: Julius http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2016 Julius Wed, 02 Jan 2008 02:48:29 +0000 http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2016 I am. I am.

]]> By: Henri http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2014 Henri Tue, 01 Jan 2008 03:39:57 +0000 http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/12/30/the-vision-of-the-rock/#comment-2014 Who is the author/speaker of this commencement address ? Who is the author/speaker of this commencement address ?

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