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	<title>Comments on: Adventism according to Gilmore Girls</title>
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	<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/</link>
	<description>Re-imagining the Adventist Vision ~ Beyond Conservative and Liberal ~ Lifting Up the Family of Adventism</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: David Vickman</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1985</link>
		<dc:creator>David Vickman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1985</guid>
		<description>Actually, Google Sybil Dorsett, Seventh-day Adventist Church. The movie was shown in a Bible class at the Adventist academy I attended, and made quite an impression.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Google Sybil Dorsett, Seventh-day Adventist Church. The movie was shown in a Bible class at the Adventist academy I attended, and made quite an impression.</p>
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		<title>By: David Vickman</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1984</link>
		<dc:creator>David Vickman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1984</guid>
		<description>I was half joking and half serious in commenting that Adventism according to Gilmore Girls is better than Adventism according to Sybil. Sybil Dorsett, that is. Try Googling Sybil Dorsett. One could generalize about white Adventists, based on Sybil. Or make unfair generalizations about the prophetic emphasis of Adventists, based upon the Branch Dividians. We're all kind of weird, in some way or another, aren't we?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was half joking and half serious in commenting that Adventism according to Gilmore Girls is better than Adventism according to Sybil. Sybil Dorsett, that is. Try Googling Sybil Dorsett. One could generalize about white Adventists, based on Sybil. Or make unfair generalizations about the prophetic emphasis of Adventists, based upon the Branch Dividians. We&#8217;re all kind of weird, in some way or another, aren&#8217;t we?</p>
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		<title>By: Julius</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1983</link>
		<dc:creator>Julius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1983</guid>
		<description>Julian: I would be cautious about making projections about Korean Adventism based on students you saw at Newbold.  It sounds more like the ethos that develops among foreign students having difficulty with a different culture and language.  For example, I've noticed the same insularity among American students in Korea and American students at various ACA colleges other than Newbold.  Making such a projection would be akin to saying, for example, that the Branch Davidians of Waco is a reflection of White  Adventism, or even White Branch Davidians.  I think the clue lies in the personalities, situation and circumstance, rather.  

Having said that there clearly are traces of ultra-dogmatic Adventism within the Korean Adventist community that is caricatured in the show.  But like Zane said, the traces of that is found throughout Adventism.  (Besides, the authorities that are invoked by these ultra-dogmatic Adventists in all cultures is usually Anglo American Adventist leaders!) And I think for the most part the show does a good job of showing that it's not the Korean-ness that makes the Kim family weird, but it's predominantly the Adventist-ness.

I think the Kim family could easily have been White, Black, or Latino, or Native American, and the caricature would've worked just as well---or poorly.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julian: I would be cautious about making projections about Korean Adventism based on students you saw at Newbold.  It sounds more like the ethos that develops among foreign students having difficulty with a different culture and language.  For example, I&#8217;ve noticed the same insularity among American students in Korea and American students at various ACA colleges other than Newbold.  Making such a projection would be akin to saying, for example, that the Branch Davidians of Waco is a reflection of White  Adventism, or even White Branch Davidians.  I think the clue lies in the personalities, situation and circumstance, rather.  </p>
<p>Having said that there clearly are traces of ultra-dogmatic Adventism within the Korean Adventist community that is caricatured in the show.  But like Zane said, the traces of that is found throughout Adventism.  (Besides, the authorities that are invoked by these ultra-dogmatic Adventists in all cultures is usually Anglo American Adventist leaders!) And I think for the most part the show does a good job of showing that it&#8217;s not the Korean-ness that makes the Kim family weird, but it&#8217;s predominantly the Adventist-ness.</p>
<p>I think the Kim family could easily have been White, Black, or Latino, or Native American, and the caricature would&#8217;ve worked just as well&#8212;or poorly.  <img src='http://progressiveadventism.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Zane</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1982</link>
		<dc:creator>Zane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1982</guid>
		<description>Oh, and I would add, that I've noticed similar things about the non-Korean Adventist communities as well. The issue of the "type" of Adventism one encounters, involves the wider issue of regional conferences and the type of theology they foster as they hire and train their pastors. 

Korean churches, for the most part, as well as most ethnic churches, seem to operate fairly independently of direct conference supervision (due to language/culture), and are therefore more susceptible to certain types of theology and their expression.  

For example, where I grew up, a lot of the young adults and youth leaders were very influenced by the theology coming out of an independent institution that was purportedly Adventist, but not really run by the Adventist church.

To the lay person, this is all very hard to differentiate, as everyone seems to be quoting Ellen White and certain sections of Daniel and Revelation. All of it is experienced as "Adventism."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and I would add, that I&#8217;ve noticed similar things about the non-Korean Adventist communities as well. The issue of the &#8220;type&#8221; of Adventism one encounters, involves the wider issue of regional conferences and the type of theology they foster as they hire and train their pastors. </p>
<p>Korean churches, for the most part, as well as most ethnic churches, seem to operate fairly independently of direct conference supervision (due to language/culture), and are therefore more susceptible to certain types of theology and their expression.  </p>
<p>For example, where I grew up, a lot of the young adults and youth leaders were very influenced by the theology coming out of an independent institution that was purportedly Adventist, but not really run by the Adventist church.</p>
<p>To the lay person, this is all very hard to differentiate, as everyone seems to be quoting Ellen White and certain sections of Daniel and Revelation. All of it is experienced as &#8220;Adventism.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Zane</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1981</link>
		<dc:creator>Zane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1981</guid>
		<description>Daneen, from what I've observed, growing up in the Korean Adventist community, the type of Adventism one holds or is exposed to depends largely on the region of the US in which he/she is located.

The eastern part of the US, particularly the Northeast, seems to be heavily influenced by Adventism of the "historic" stripe. 

The west, less so--much more "evangelical." 

This is probably a gross over-simplification, and I think things are changing, so I stand to be corrected...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daneen, from what I&#8217;ve observed, growing up in the Korean Adventist community, the type of Adventism one holds or is exposed to depends largely on the region of the US in which he/she is located.</p>
<p>The eastern part of the US, particularly the Northeast, seems to be heavily influenced by Adventism of the &#8220;historic&#8221; stripe. </p>
<p>The west, less so&#8211;much more &#8220;evangelical.&#8221; </p>
<p>This is probably a gross over-simplification, and I think things are changing, so I stand to be corrected&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John Choe</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1980</link>
		<dc:creator>John Choe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1980</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the GG post. Gilmore Girls seems to be one of those niche shows that appears to be marketed to young girls, but it actually has a huge following of trendy-indie-comic book and graphic novel-fanatics. Buffy the Vampire Slayer had a similar cult following. I've never seen the show, but I do know that Adventism's notoriety is rising amongst its fans, whether for better or worse, I don't know.  

Also, I'm following your lead and starting a blog of my own. It won't be anywhere near as provocative and academic as yours, but I hope you don't mind me listing you as a friend and fellow blogger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the GG post. Gilmore Girls seems to be one of those niche shows that appears to be marketed to young girls, but it actually has a huge following of trendy-indie-comic book and graphic novel-fanatics. Buffy the Vampire Slayer had a similar cult following. I&#8217;ve never seen the show, but I do know that Adventism&#8217;s notoriety is rising amongst its fans, whether for better or worse, I don&#8217;t know.  </p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m following your lead and starting a blog of my own. It won&#8217;t be anywhere near as provocative and academic as yours, but I hope you don&#8217;t mind me listing you as a friend and fellow blogger.</p>
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		<title>By: Daneen Akers</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1977</link>
		<dc:creator>Daneen Akers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1977</guid>
		<description>Thanks Julius--I've known for a while I should check out this show, but now you've given me a good excuse. 

The type of Adventism described here is mostly alien to me--my family never adhered to regulations with such a vengeance. I'm sure it happens though. Have you noticed a tendency towards very strict Adventism within the Korean community?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Julius&#8211;I&#8217;ve known for a while I should check out this show, but now you&#8217;ve given me a good excuse. </p>
<p>The type of Adventism described here is mostly alien to me&#8211;my family never adhered to regulations with such a vengeance. I&#8217;m sure it happens though. Have you noticed a tendency towards very strict Adventism within the Korean community?</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Kastrati</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1973</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Kastrati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1973</guid>
		<description>Thanks for a thought-provoking article. I  dare say that the Korean/Adventist identity that we see portrayed in the sitcom are  probably not so exaggerated. One of the biggest challenges I had at Newbold College as associate dean was the integration of the considerable Korean Adventist youth into college life and social events. co Their attitude, which reflected their subculture,even within the walls of an Adventist institution, was exclusive and at times incompatible with that of fellow European and/or North American Adventist students.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for a thought-provoking article. I  dare say that the Korean/Adventist identity that we see portrayed in the sitcom are  probably not so exaggerated. One of the biggest challenges I had at Newbold College as associate dean was the integration of the considerable Korean Adventist youth into college life and social events. co Their attitude, which reflected their subculture,even within the walls of an Adventist institution, was exclusive and at times incompatible with that of fellow European and/or North American Adventist students.</p>
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		<title>By: Julius</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1969</link>
		<dc:creator>Julius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 07:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1969</guid>
		<description>Joey - The Adventists in GG worship both on Saturday and Sunday.  There's a scene where the same worship space is shared by Adventist and Jewish congregations, but then there's another scene the next season where there's a reference to a worship service being on a Sunday.  I asked Helen Pai about that, and also about the lack of any reference to Sabbathkeeping.  She said that's something that didn't cross their minds and working the Sabbathkeeping thing would've been difficult to work into the script.

As to your comment on Adventism's us vs. them mentality, I think the tension between our Christianness and our Adventistness is a healthy one to maintain and an over-emphasis on one leads to loss of our historic identity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joey - The Adventists in GG worship both on Saturday and Sunday.  There&#8217;s a scene where the same worship space is shared by Adventist and Jewish congregations, but then there&#8217;s another scene the next season where there&#8217;s a reference to a worship service being on a Sunday.  I asked Helen Pai about that, and also about the lack of any reference to Sabbathkeeping.  She said that&#8217;s something that didn&#8217;t cross their minds and working the Sabbathkeeping thing would&#8217;ve been difficult to work into the script.</p>
<p>As to your comment on Adventism&#8217;s us vs. them mentality, I think the tension between our Christianness and our Adventistness is a healthy one to maintain and an over-emphasis on one leads to loss of our historic identity.</p>
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		<title>By: Joey</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1966</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 05:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1966</guid>
		<description>Julius, 

Did Helen mention anything about why the SDA's in Gilmore Girls worshiped on Sunday?  If she wanted to point out the quirks of SDA's that seems to be a big one.  

Also, it seems that from its beginning Adventism fostered an us versus them mentality.  The concept of needing to come out of Babylon was a part of the preaching of many Millerites.    In fact, after the Great Disappointment each splinter group began to accuse the others of being Babylon.  These tendencies seem to be a part of SDA's even to this day (i.e. Reformed Adventists, Historical Adventists).  

Thus, it seems that the desire to be separate and different than the world is ingrained both in our history and our theology.  So my question is, is that desire unbiblical?   Is that a tendency that we should fight?  Do we, like Mrs. Kim, need to be re-educated?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julius, </p>
<p>Did Helen mention anything about why the SDA&#8217;s in Gilmore Girls worshiped on Sunday?  If she wanted to point out the quirks of SDA&#8217;s that seems to be a big one.  </p>
<p>Also, it seems that from its beginning Adventism fostered an us versus them mentality.  The concept of needing to come out of Babylon was a part of the preaching of many Millerites.    In fact, after the Great Disappointment each splinter group began to accuse the others of being Babylon.  These tendencies seem to be a part of SDA&#8217;s even to this day (i.e. Reformed Adventists, Historical Adventists).  </p>
<p>Thus, it seems that the desire to be separate and different than the world is ingrained both in our history and our theology.  So my question is, is that desire unbiblical?   Is that a tendency that we should fight?  Do we, like Mrs. Kim, need to be re-educated?</p>
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		<title>By: David Vickman</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1964</link>
		<dc:creator>David Vickman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1964</guid>
		<description>At least Adventism according to the Gilmore Girls is better than Adventism according to Sybil...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least Adventism according to the Gilmore Girls is better than Adventism according to Sybil&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Julius</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1963</link>
		<dc:creator>Julius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1963</guid>
		<description>Of course, it's exaggerated...an exaggerated version of what was true about certain impulses within Adventism on the whole, I would say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, it&#8217;s exaggerated&#8230;an exaggerated version of what was true about certain impulses within Adventism on the whole, I would say.</p>
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		<title>By: David Hamstra</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1962</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hamstra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1962</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Julius. I was wondering about the back story to the character. I shouldn't have written "the fellow" but "a fellow" since I'm sure there must have been some other SDA connection to the creator. Would Helen say that the characterization of Korean Adventism in the show is "spot on" or "exaggerated"?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Julius. I was wondering about the back story to the character. I shouldn&#8217;t have written &#8220;the fellow&#8221; but &#8220;a fellow&#8221; since I&#8217;m sure there must have been some other SDA connection to the creator. Would Helen say that the characterization of Korean Adventism in the show is &#8220;spot on&#8221; or &#8220;exaggerated&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Julius</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1961</link>
		<dc:creator>Julius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 18:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1961</guid>
		<description>The Lane character is based very loosely on the life of Helen Pai who grew up as a Seventh-day Adventist but is no longer a member though most of her family members still are.  She is the best friend of the creator of the show, Amy Sherman-Palladino.  She is also the producer of the show.  Helen graduated from La Sierra and entered the entertainment industry right after graduation.  Lane's rock band in the show is named Hep Alien (which is an anagram of Helen Pai).  I interviewed her for this paper several months ago; she was very helpful.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_Kim for more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Lane character is based very loosely on the life of Helen Pai who grew up as a Seventh-day Adventist but is no longer a member though most of her family members still are.  She is the best friend of the creator of the show, Amy Sherman-Palladino.  She is also the producer of the show.  Helen graduated from La Sierra and entered the entertainment industry right after graduation.  Lane&#8217;s rock band in the show is named Hep Alien (which is an anagram of Helen Pai).  I interviewed her for this paper several months ago; she was very helpful.  See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_Kim" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_Kim</a> for more.</p>
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		<title>By: David Hamstra</title>
		<link>http://progressiveadventism.com/2007/11/17/adventism-according-to-gilmore-girls/#comment-1960</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hamstra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have a brother-in-law who's in the film industry who knows the follow who advised the Gilmore Girls writers/producers on the nuances of the Adventist sub-culture. He's an ex-Adventist, and I'm pretty sure that must have colored their portrayal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a brother-in-law who&#8217;s in the film industry who knows the follow who advised the Gilmore Girls writers/producers on the nuances of the Adventist sub-culture. He&#8217;s an ex-Adventist, and I&#8217;m pretty sure that must have colored their portrayal.</p>
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